2025-06-06.log

- ex-parrot (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~fincham@user/ex-parrot)01:06
- mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org)01:09
+ nop3ar (~nop3ar@51.222.96.106)01:53
nop3arbkeys: take a look at edk2 project readme and release notes. it explains how to boot mainline and what works.01:56
nop3arit also says that only devices marked as "platinum" can boot mainline distros out of the box; for other you need to provide a compatible dtb. i do not see the reform listed there at all though, so curious how did you load it to begin with?01:58
bkeysnop3ar: I loaded it because that is what minute had loaded on his01:59
nop3ardoes minute have a custom build for the reform?02:00
minuteno. edk2 made a build for the rockchip module from firefly we use, a longer time ago02:01
minuteit doesn't have the full dtb for the laptop though. you'd need to install that somehow, like using the methods i found earlier today or reading more documentation (i didn't have time for this yet)02:03
nop3arthis is what i am looking at https://github.com/edk2-porting/edk2-rk3588?tab=readme-ov-file#custom-device-tree-blob-dtb-override-and-overlays02:04
nop3arapparently even if the firmware image does not come with a mainline dtb, it can use the one included by some distros like fedora02:05
nop3ar> \dtb\rockchip - Fedora images have the kernel DTBs in this location on the second ext4 boot partition.02:05
nop3arbut a dtb for the reform would have to be upstream to begin with and i assume it has to match the name expected by the firmware and such02:06
kfxI just got openbsd installed via edk2 and acpi mode, but it doesn't detect any network devices (and edk2 doesn't even recognize the keyboard; I had to plug in a usb one)02:06
kfxI'm gonna try to rebuild edk2 with a device-specific dtb02:10
nop3arugh i do not think you want to use acpi with this. it is usually very bare bones on this kind of devices due to how custom they are.02:10
nop3arbut if openbsd does not have any kind of rk3588 support with dt then acpi is the only option i guess02:10
nop3arfor very limited support02:11
kfxopenbsd might, but I have no idea how to find out, and especially no idea how to find out whether the devicetree they ship is correct02:12
kfxI never in my life thought anyone could invent something worse than acpi, but the industry rose to the challenge and provided devicetree02:13
+ ex-parrot (~fincham@user/ex-parrot)02:13
nop3arrockchip (or pretty much all arm) devices have very different dtbs for the BSP kernel and mainline. they are not interchangeable.02:15
- potash (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~potash@user/foghorn)02:18
- nop3ar (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~nop3ar@51.222.96.106)02:23
bkeyskfx: Let me know if you get the custom edk2 built I would be interested in trying it on my device02:28
kfxbkeys: it's gonna take me days, if I get it working at all.  there's ten million lines of code in this disasterpiece02:32
bkeysYeah I hear you, I heard that modern Fedora has the DTB included, I booted Fedora Rawhide on there and it gave the same results as f42 did, no discernable difference02:33
bkeysFor some reason they keep saying devicetree fixes everything, but I can't even geti t02:33
bkeysit to boot on device tree02:33
+ potash (~potash@user/foghorn)02:37
kfxsame here02:44
kfxI can get an openbsd bootloader but nothing else02:44
kfxI can't get netbsd to boot under any circumstances, with any bootloader02:46
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9ace:3000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)02:54
- nsc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~nicolas@i5C74DDFB.versanet.de)03:21
+ nsc (~nicolas@i5C74DD72.versanet.de)03:22
+ paperManu_ (~paperManu@107.159.213.145)03:24
- robin_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~robin@user/terpri)04:38
- paperManu_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~paperManu@107.159.213.145)04:39
+ robin (~robin@user/terpri)05:32
- Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~linx@149.210.0.43)05:55
+ Ar|stote|is (~linx@149.210.0.43)05:56
Zabakfx: “the industry”? you mean the embedded Linux community?07:40
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9ace:3000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)08:08
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9ace:3000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)08:22
kfxZaba: the IT industry.  the embedded linux community didn't create device tree.  madness like that requires a multinational corporation.08:42
Zabathe embedded Linux community created the flattened device tree08:55
Zabait’s ironic that when something is part of the firmware people complain about opaque firmware, but when it’s under the control of the OS they complain about having that control too08:58
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9ace:3000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)08:58
kfxback in the day it was just a way to offload development effort to a different team so the hardware people could get stuff out the door faster09:00
kfxnothing seems to have changed there09:00
kfxmost of my device tree experience was in screwing around with ofw on power systems; after a few years of that, I stopped complaining about acpi09:05
Zabasorry to hear that you had bad experiences with it 09:28
+ gustav28 (~gustav@c-78-82-53-92.bbcust.telenor.se)09:46
minutethe problem isn't devicetree. the problem is you're not telling the bootloader which devicetree to use10:59
minute(if you use edk2 build for firefly aio, it doesn't know that it should load the rk3588-reform2 dtb. how should it know?)11:00
+ mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org)11:02
Zaba(I’d say the problem is that people want stuff to work out of the box and have little appreciation for how much effort that actually takes)11:02
gsoralove when the courier handling your reform won't deliver it due to "unforeseen circumstances" :')11:29
+ f_ (16abab341f@postmarketOS/funderscore)11:33
minutegsora: oh no11:33
joschgsora: welcome to the club -- i have eight orders from mntre.com and *none* of them was delivered without issues by UPS...11:46
gsorayah, big sad11:46
gsoraoh, got the ssd delivered at least11:46
[tj]conversely I've had no issues11:46
sad_planisnt usps notorously bad in the US? I seem to recall people usually having numerous issues with them11:47
josch <= germany11:48
gsora<= italy11:48
sad_planah, so its a usps thing, not a US usps thing :p11:48
gsoraha!11:48
gsoraisn't usps the national us postal service? ups is the private one11:49
sad_planon second thought, its a USps issue. lol11:49
sad_plani think so. theres some usps here aswell, but I dont belive theyre that big here really11:49
gsorathe only courier that's always on time is dhl in my experience11:49
ZabaUSPS and UPS are completely separate and unrelated entities 11:49
gsorayeah11:49
sad_plandoes that make UPS any better Zaba? :p11:50
Zabait makes their badness completely independent of any experience anyone may have had with USPS11:51
sad_plannot entierly. both are still postal services. but fine :p11:51
Zabawell, UPS bills itself as an express courier service, which means the crash is harder when the expectations aren’t met 11:52
gsoraagreed, i kind of expect standard postal services to be bad11:53
sad_planway to shot yourself in the leg if you fail to meet expectations :p11:53
[tj]usps shipped stuff to the uk is normally great11:54
gsorai guess it's just luck11:55
sad_planive never really had any personal issues with it. maybe appart from one time years ago, where my package acatually disappeared. i think this was usps11:55
gsoralooks like yours truly will take a day off on monday to play with his new toy11:55
sad_plannice. pocket or classic? I dont always re back on logs, so I dont recall you mentioning it11:56
gsoraclassic! been waiting for almost a year 11:57
gsoragot the 32gb ram/256gb ssd rk3588, it's gonna be fun11:57
sad_plandamn. thought the waiting were 4 months. 11:57
sad_plansweet11:57
gsorai guess i ordered at an unfortunate time11:58
gsoraupside is i got the new motherboard11:58
sad_planive been thinking about getting a pocket, i eally like the cute format of them. but I also kinda wanna wait for the nex to drop, maybe iron out the first iteration or something like that11:58
sad_planperhaps11:58
sad_plannice11:58
joschgsora: you will have lots of fun with the rk3588 -- the performance is high and above even the a311d...11:59
gsorai12:00
gsorai'll put it to work with a great deal of rust :^)12:00
sad_planas in building rust, or writing rust? :p12:01
- mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org)12:01
gsorawriting, though building could be an interesting benchmark...12:01
sad_planI bet12:03
* Guest7734 -> mjw12:04
sad_planfrom memory, and benchmark, the cpu should be ~comparable to a ryzen 7 3700U. which is what I have in my laptop. iirc, rust builds in about an hour. its been some time since I built rust, so it might be double that now. I dunno12:06
gsorathat's a lot better than i expected12:08
gsoratbf i would've been okay with haswell-like performance12:09
joschi was actually okay with a311d performance but now that i have the rk3588 i'm reconsidering...12:13
+ paperManu (~paperManu@107.159.213.145)12:18
sad_plangsora: right? I was pleasntly suprised with those numbers aswell. 12:22
sad_planI can relate josch. I have a much beafier desktop at home, and building things on my laptop is.. terrible in comparisson really :p12:22
gsoramy secret dream would be an amd64-compatible board for the reform12:23
gsorajust to run guitar VSTs, that is12:23
sad_planthings not being x86 is probably a thing that holds some people back tbh. people are accustomed to x86, even with arm being relativly mainstream, x86 is kinda the standard :p12:24
joschi'm maintaining box64 in Debian and I've had great success with it thus far12:24
joschi'm playing factorio with 60 fps and cpu idles at 20%12:25
sad_planyeah, ive browsed the gaming thread, and theres numerous mentions of box64. not really looked into it, but it sounds dope12:25
gsorathat's impressive! i've had some luck with box64, i wonder how it plays with DRM though12:25
sad_planimpressive performance. 12:25
gsoraand low-latency software12:25
[tj]I'd love it if someone could figure out how to run nordic connect via box6412:29
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9ace:3000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)12:37
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9ace:3000:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)12:38
josch[tj]: the box64 developer is *extremely* supportive when you send bug reports -- did you try opening an issue with them?12:59
[tj]I didn't I think it is an entire chrome13:00
joschaha see *this* is what i mean -- tracking says "Friday, June 06 between 17:00 - 19:00"13:09
joschand they jusst delivered it and it's 13:10...13:10
joschwell, tried to -- i'm not home13:10
minutesad_plan: interesting, that seems about right @ ryzen 7 3700u. which laptop is that?13:10
minutejosch: do you know anyone from debian chromium maintainers? do you think they could be convinced to look at this patch? :D https://github.com/amazingfate/chromium-debian-build/blob/really-fix-libsync/debian/patches/fixes/libsync-rk3588-panthor.patch13:16
minutebackground https://issues.chromium.org/issues/34359237013:17
minuteOTOH i've looked a bit at ungoogled chromium and might be interesting to build it somewhere incl this patch13:17
sad_planminute: its acer apire something. lemme see if I can get more precise info13:25
sad_planits an aspire 3 a315-4113:29
Zabawhat did you use to compare the performance?13:29
joschminute: yes, but not until Trixie is released -- we are in deep freeze right now13:29
sad_planZaba: I just looked a cpu benchmark of both, and compared them13:31
sad_planZaba rk3488: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Rockchip+RK358813:32
sad_planand 3700U: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+3700U13:32
sad_planthe 3700U is somewhat more powerfull, but not by a huge mark13:32
sad_planI seem to recall they being closer though13:32
sad_planheres a side-by-side instead, which is easier to follow https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4906vs3426/Rockchip-RK3588-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700U13:35
minutesad_plan: maybe you can run "7z b" on your laptop 13:53
minutewe have benchmarks published for that 13:54
sad_planthats part of p7zip isnt it? id have to build it first, or boot up a live env13:55
sad_planbut sure, I can do that13:55
abortretryfailheh neat. I didn't know 7zip included a benchmark tool14:12
sad_planme neither. I dont use p7zip either though14:14
sad_planminute: here http://0x0.st/8gMU.txt14:14
- shdw (QUIT: Quit: connection reset by purr) (~shdw@static.218.156.216.95.clients.your-server.de)14:23
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@h211.16.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)14:46
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@h211.16.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)14:47
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@173.186.16.211)14:49
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Thunderbi@h211.16.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)14:50
* bkeys1 -> bkeys14:50
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~Thunderbi@173.186.16.211)15:04
+ shdw (~shdw@static.218.156.216.95.clients.your-server.de)15:05
joschminute: building the Debian chrome package is very resource hungry but the build itself seems to be reliable and well maintained. They even added cross compilation last week.15:06
- mesaoptimizer (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4) (~mesa@user/PapuaHardyNet)15:07
+ mesaoptimizer (~mesa@user/PapuaHardyNet)15:08
minutejosch: neat. meanwhile i got some feedback from daniels that he's on the issue15:11
minutesad_plan: interesting, the score is a bunch lower than what we get on rk3588 https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/blob/master/reform2-benchmarks/benchmark-7zb-rk3588.txt15:11
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:14
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:17
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:17
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:17
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:18
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)15:19
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:21
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:21
Zabadon’t use p7zip, it’s old - newer versions of 7zip support Linux, the executable is called 7zz 15:22
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)15:23
Zabahttps://tracker.debian.org/pkg/7zip etc15:23
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)15:24
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:25
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:26
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:28
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)15:30
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:31
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:34
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:34
* bkeys1 -> bkeys15:37
- bkeys (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:38
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:38
* bkeys1 -> bkeys15:42
- bkeys (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:42
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:42
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:43
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:44
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:46
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:46
- bkeys (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:51
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:52
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:54
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:54
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)15:58
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)16:01
- bkeys (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)16:03
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)16:06
- bkeys (QUIT: Quit: With every step we take, danger will follow closely) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)16:14
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)16:14
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)16:21
+ arminweigl_ (~arminweig@sourcehut/user/arminweigl)16:45
- arminweigl (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~arminweig@sourcehut/user/arminweigl)16:45
* arminweigl_ -> arminweigl16:46
sad_planminute: hm. that is interesting. maybe my system is just terribly optimized. I run my own custom distro on this machine, and performance didnt really come 1st in this case16:55
sad_planill fire up a live usb, and rerun the test. maybe I get different result16:56
sad_planminute: http://0x0.st/8gQs.txt fired up chimera. this is probably in the realm of expected performance17:04
kfxsad_plan: what bootloader are you using in your custom distro17:12
sad_plankfx: none. I use efistub17:12
kfxsad_plan: with edk2?17:12
sad_planno, i dont have a reform currently. this is an acer laptop in question17:13
kfxah, ok, sorry for the mixup17:14
+ ericsfraga (~user@2a00:23cc:b45c:9001::99e)17:14
sad_planno worries C:17:14
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:19
- bkeys (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:25
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:26
* bkeys1 -> bkeys17:28
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:36
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:36
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Client Quit) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:38
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:38
minutesad_plan: aha, interesting @ performance17:42
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)17:49
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~Thunderbi@66.110.201.50)17:51
* bkeys1 -> bkeys17:51
- bkeys (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)17:53
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)17:53
* bkeys1 -> bkeys17:56
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)18:37
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)18:44
- colinsane (QUIT: Quit: bye) (~colinunin@97-113-82-94.tukw.qwest.net)18:45
+ colinsane (~colinunin@97-113-82-94.tukw.qwest.net)18:49
- colinsane (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~colinunin@97-113-82-94.tukw.qwest.net)18:54
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)18:57
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@h211.16.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)19:01
+ vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50)19:21
+ mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org)19:25
* f_ -> [f_]20:05
* [f_] -> f_20:05
- gustav28 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-78-82-53-92.bbcust.telenor.se)22:15
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)22:58
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~Thunderbi@h211.16.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)22:58
- bkeys1 (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)22:59
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)23:00
joschminute: thank you and the MNT team so much for the shipment that arrived today! <323:06
minutejosch: oh nice! hope it all works :D23:06
joschminute: the replacement charging board for the pocket made my pocket work again, so I guess we can be sure now that it indeed was the charging board even though the broken board is visually okay23:06
minutejosch: ah, good to know!23:07
zeha\o/23:07
minutea friend already overhauled most of the layout, i just have to finish some stuff about it (pocket charger board)23:07
joschminute: i'm testing the battery runtime now. I have the latest system image v5 loaded up with gnome, did no customizations at all and am playing the fireplace video from youtube in fullscreen with firefox at full display brightness with wifi. I get 1.5 hours of battery runtime -- is that expected or am I somehow not testing this right?23:08
minutejosch: i'd expect more!23:09
minuteotoh firefox is not very efficient for video iirc... i wonder what the cpu usage was like23:10
+ CephonAltera (~cephonalt@user/CephonAltera)23:12
joschyes, esther achieves 3 hours with a similar setup but with display brightness at 30%23:16
joschfour cores doing nothing, the other at ~40% utilization: https://mister-muffin.de/p/KYT0.png23:17
- bkeys (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)23:20
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)23:22
CephonAlteraHey so i grepped the IRC logs and i more or less get the picture on the status of X11. While there's a lot of various conflicting information about it online, i've installed LXDE on my MNT Pocket Reform with the RK3588 and it seems to run fine. Other than one issue where moving the mouse seems to block rendering until the mouse movement is stopped. I am not raising this as an issue, but more so, im more so writing here to see if anyone 23:34
CephonAlteraelse has been trying something similar as im a bit stumped23:34
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone)23:45

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!