2025-09-22.log

elb(I'm looking for the exact wording now)00:00
elbYou can tell gcc not to assume that, though00:00
erlejosch do you have any more tips to get a … stable … imgx8mq system? the random lockups kinda annoy me.00:04
joscherle: do you only get these lock-ups after resuming from suspend?00:05
elbahh here: "The empty list in a function declarator that is not part of a definition of that function specifies that no information about the number or types of the parameters is supplied."00:06
elbC99 declares the intention to obsolete this, but certainly allows it00:07
erlejosch not only, but mostly. sometimes i get them when programs do something. like the first time i started flare-game.00:07
erlejosch or on a specific youtube video00:07
erleand also sometimes the reform just hangs on boot right after systemd says something about udev00:08
joschokay, your lock-ups might be completely different from the ones i had which usually appeared when the system was idle over night00:08
erlenah, mine are either suspend-wake or intense graphical activity (but never minetest)00:08
elblooking at the commit in question, I would use `bool gfx_init(void);` if I wanted to be fully explicit00:14
elband it looks to me (surprisingly) that the option which causes gcc to automatically warn for this, -Wstrict-prototypes, is NOT part of -Wall and (more surprisingly) neither is it in -Wextra00:14
joschyes, thaht's what i also observed00:16
- mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org)00:21
+ shtrophic (~m-hrdsqi@user/shtrophic)00:31
minuteerle: iirc the hangs can be related to the dcss display pipeline. try to switch to dual display mode. this selects an alternative device tree dtb on imx8mq which uses lcdif instead of dcss.00:50
minuteerle: sudo reform-display-config --dual (or dual, don't remember)00:51
erleminute i did that last night and it broke suspend/resume (computer woke up again, but locked up)00:51
erlelike, i saw a single cursor blinking, then just a black screen00:51
minuteerle: sorry, i don't work on imx8mq support anymore00:51
erlewell who does?00:51
minutenoone00:51
erlefunny, i play with that guy on oysterity anarchy. i'll ask him then.00:52
minuteerle: you could migrate to 9front00:52
minuteerle: it probably has better mnt reform imx8mq support than linux by now ^^00:53
erlei don't really want to00:53
erlei mean apart from the random hangups the thing does what i need to00:53
erlei just want it to be as stable as an old thinkpad00:53
joschi'm still rebasing that cadence hdmi patch stack on every kernel release...00:53
minuteor get a newer processor module (suspend is broken on all of them though)00:53
minutethe next one that can probably do suspend is the qcs6490 module that's coming soon00:54
erlenah, if i get a new laptop, it will be a thinkpad again probably. shitty keyboard, but that's why i have 2 of the mnt keyboards.00:55
erlealthough i hope i can find some way that i don't have to do that00:56
erle(i.e. i need to find a way to avoid random hangs)00:56
minutewhy a new laptop?00:57
joscherle: maybe you can try the dual display again at the cost of suspend just to see if it fixes the hangs you have or not?00:57
erlejosch i will!00:58
minutejosch: we could just change the single display dts to use lcdif as well00:58
minuteas i suspect hdmi could cause suspend to break00:58
joschi'd say it's too late to change things on a platform where not much active development happens anymore00:59
minuteit's a trivial change. i can do it tomorrow, at least in a branch00:59
erlei will assist as much as i can, given i have a vested interest in this working, just tell me what to do00:59
minutewell, lets see.00:59
erlefor now i just change back to the dual-display thing01:00
joschsame here -- next week is the new kernel release that i have to test on imx8mq01:00
minuteto derive a single display lcdif dts, it would be enough to copy the dual display dts and remove/disable the hdmi node(s)01:01
erleminute i need a new laptop because the multiple thinkpads i have all are either >15 years old or broken like “WLAN has very high jitter with modern kernel”, like this one: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=111586201:02
erlemy fav idea would though to make the reform work, because it has the best keyboard i have ever used01:02
minutei see, what i mean to say is that the reform can be cheaply upgraded to better processors (except the rk3588 which is comparably expensive)01:03
joschheh today i observed that the rk3588 runs the tests of one of my software packages faster (only takes 3.5 hours instead of 5) than my old thinkpad that i had before :D01:03
erleyeah but you said yourself that this breaks suspend/resume01:03
joscherle: some folks are working on hibernate (but don't hold your breath)01:03
erlealso the reform is *very* sturdy and apart from the “loose screws” thing it's probably tankier than most thinkpads01:03
erlemeanwhile, on newer thinkpads the frame deforms so much over time that keys get stuck01:04
minutei still want to make at least hibernate work on rk3588, and for qcs6490 i lined up a collaboration with linaro to make sure that suspend works01:05
erleweird, i always thought hibernation on linux was a thing that did not need much hardware-specific details, just “write the RAM into swap” and the reverse. seems i was wrong.01:05
minuteerle: the screw stuff was solved a longer time ago, with these https://shop.mntre.com/products/m2-x-5-mm-phillips-countersunk-screws?taxon_id=13 (nylok like)01:05
erlei just wanted to be specific ;)01:06
erlebut thanks anyway01:06
minuteerle: well, that's why i think hibernate is possible to fix on rk3588 but not sure about suspend to ram01:06
minutei mean, i'm sure it's possible to fix that too, with enough time and money01:07
erlehmm, question. can i boot from USB? or only SD card? i have more spare USB sticks than SD cards.01:07
minuteyes @ usb01:08
erleok thx01:08
joschyes, even with imx8mq01:08
joscherle: modern u-boot releases for the reform should order usb boot after sd-card and emmc01:08
erlejosch btw thanks for https://reform.debian.net01:12
joschyou are welcome -- i'm just scratching my own itch :)01:13
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)01:13
joschit is not without conceptual problems though -- often people report issues without mentioning that they do not use the official MNT debian packages which makes debugging harder01:16
joschthis is made even worse by the fact that reform.d.n is at the top of search engine results when one searches for reform debian system images...01:17
joschand then there is the problem that without having people experience issues in unstable, the problems will not get fixed before the next stable release01:17
joschfor example, i have some mesa bugs in trixie that i didn't notice because i was running mesa from bookworm before...01:18
joscha.ustriancoder helped me debug them and now i'm running sway with mesa from git...01:18
erlei was just able to suspend-resume with the dual setup! so it does not 100% break suspend-resume.01:20
erleit is, however, not reliable01:20
erlejosch you have imx8mq as well, right?01:20
joschyes01:20
erlejosch if you can spare the time, please send me a screenshot from how glxgears looks with mesa from git01:21
joscherle: sure thing! can you ping me about that? i'll have forgotten tomorrow :)01:21
josch(and now it's too late)01:21
erlei'll try01:22
joscherle: you filed this as a mesa bug, no? if you link me the bug i can have it open in a tab as a reminder01:23
erlejosch i have not yet because i have not yet setup mesa from git01:23
erlei'll try to remind myself to do it :P01:24
erlethen you can chime in with “i have this issue” or “i don't have this issue”01:24
joschfeel free to ping me if you need help with building mesa -- it's quite easy01:24
erleso far i have only ever built mesa demos01:25
erleto prove to some people that on a potato pc you can do shadows and reflections01:25
josch6.16.8 was uploaded to unstable yesterday -- it does not break the patch stack and reform-debian-packages pipeline is running01:29
joschsystem image with unreleased reform-setup-wizard and unreleased reform-tools is here: https://source.mnt.re/josch/reform-system-image/-/jobs/13241/artifacts/browsehttps://source.mnt.re/josch/reform-system-image/-/jobs/13241/artifacts/browse01:29
joschups01:29
joschi'll try that out tomorrow01:30
joschif i do it on imx8mq, i catch two birds at once :)01:30
erleso i now suspect that the single/dual thing may not affect suspend/resume hangs at all. with both configurations i was able to successfully and unsuccessfully resume.01:30
erlealso, to distinguish between a full hang and just a display hang i play music ;)01:31
erlegood night!01:32
elbspeaking of playing music I couldn't get music to come out of my headphones the other day, but I suspect it was PEBKAC01:32
elbthe speaker worked fine01:32
elbugh every time I go to shop.mnt.re I want to get the v2 rcore and wifi slot headset board, I had thought my pocket would come with them and it didn't01:33
elbbut I don't really need it and I feel like buying extra parts I don't need for the laptop I got so it never has to become ewaste is counter-productive ;-)01:34
erleelb according to https://lenowo.org/ nothing has to become ewaste! check this out: https://lenowo.org/viewtopic.php?t=2801:38
erle> After the recent hacker news "invasion", I have now determined that the page can handle up to 1536 users before running out of RAM, meaning that the IP camera surprisingly is fully sufficient for its purpose.01:39
erle;)01:39
erleand someone else replies:01:39
erle> I have a homebrew linux computer based on an AT91SAM harvested from a vape01:39
erlelife … finds a way01:39
elbyeah but in this case I'd have a carrier board and a headphone board left over, but no motherboard or SoM01:40
erlerewire the speakers? xD01:40
erlealternatively … do you know jabra?01:41
erlethey make headphones that come with a usb sound card (as far as i can tell)01:41
erleand the heapdhones break a lot01:41
erlebecause they contain some kind of load-bearing cable01:41
erleso because my previous employer simply replaced them i now have a bunch of grimy usb sound card dongles01:42
elbno, I mean, the pocket reform I have already has a carrier board and it already has a headphone board, and what I keep looking at is a replacement carrier and headphone board that I _don't need_01:42
erleif you know anyone who used to have a jabra headphone, maybe that person has a jabra usb dongle for you01:42
erleoh01:42
erlei guess i should go to sleep so my reading comprehension goes up again01:43
erlegood night!01:43
elbgood night :-)01:45
elbno I definitely don't have any headphone audio01:47
elbhmmm the plug is plugged in on both ends and I get a little bit of crackle in the headphones when I plug _them_ in, so there's _something_ there01:51
elbwow, that wifi chip gets hot01:51
elbok looks like I have to change audio output via the audio configuration tab, not output devices01:56
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+ andreas-e (~Andreas@2a02-8434-b6a3-e901-facc-8e87-8e54-890d.rev.sfr.net)10:06
minuteok, still got "reset by watchdog" this morning, so there's something else besides that fixed memory leak.10:14
joschoh :(11:15
joschwas it a reboot? how did you identify that it was due to "reset by watchdog"?11:16
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minutejosch: the OLED says "Reset by watchdog."12:55
+ gustav2 (~gustav@c-78-82-55-162.bbcust.telenor.se)13:03
+ thelounge5700 (~thelounge@148.168.138.88.rev.sfr.net)13:14
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+ mjw (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c)13:29
joschhrm... i don't remember having seen that when my pocket rebooted the last time13:43
[tj]minute: oh I get that constantly13:45
[tj]and then all typing is backgrounded with a screen saying "press xanndy to boot"13:46
minute[tj]: what13:47
[tj]whatever the instructions are on the old to turn on the pocket13:48
[tj]led13:48
[tj]oled13:48
minute[tj]: ok, can you try my new build that fixes the memory leaks at least https://source.mnt.re/reform/pocket-reform/-/jobs/13221/artifacts/browse/pocket-reform-keyboard-fw/pocket-hid/build/13:48
minutejosch: it doesn't have to do with the reboots. that's a separate issue. 13:49
minutejosch: it's only a reset of the keyboard itself13:49
minutejosch: the reboots probably have to do with system controller fw13:49
joschoh no :(13:51
joschthen my issue is a different one -- i do not remember watchdog resets anymore with the latest firmware...13:51
joschin more positive news, waydroid is running well on rk3588 and i was able to install signal and too good to go without issues: https://mister-muffin.de/p/Tqfb.png (screenshot of waydroid)13:56
[tj]minute: sure I'll try later today when I'm done work13:56
joschi also managed to install the app of our kindergarten and snooping the traffic with mitmproxy revealed that it's just a browser for a typo3 website, so no need for an app there :)13:56
[tj]other than the message on the oled my pocket reform experience is really solid13:56
joschjust our local cargo-bike sharing app refuses to install :(13:56
[tj]otherwise I'm kind of numb to bugs these days13:57
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chnice @ cppcheck fixes15:58
minutejosch: oh nice, how did you install waydroid?16:08
joschminute: i do not trust the random android binary blobs so everything is happening inside qemu. Here is my POC: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/70c46c6e/16:09
joschi'll blog about this once i'm happy with the script which needs mitmproxy packaged in debian16:09
joschmitmproxy was kicked out of debian trixie and i didn't notice until now :(16:09
joscha handful of rust crates need to get packaged before the new version can get uploaded to unstable16:10
joschoh and on rk3588 i need to somehow figure out why there are graphics glitches16:11
josch(works fine on a311d and imx8mq)16:11
erlejosch imx8mq regarding “random” hangs, any workload that triggered it for you?16:15
joscherle: nope16:15
erlejosch also i want to remind you to post a screenshot of glxgears with mesa git on the vivante GPU16:15
joscherle: you are too late, i'm already in the process of building mesa :)16:17
joscherle: https://mister-muffin.de/p/xVJU.png16:29
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erlejosch given that you have built recent mesa just now and it looks broken, do you want to file the bug?16:44
erlejosch also thank you16:44
joscherle: i would appreciate if you could take care of it -- i have too many projects already as it is16:45
erlei'll try16:49
- erle (QUIT: Quit: K-lined) (~erle@user/erle)16:49
joscherle: when you file it, you can @-mention me as another affected user, i'm @josch16:49
joschah too late16:50
joschin unrelated news, if you want to to have a rk3588 classic reform tomorrow, there is one sold in Berlin, Germany: https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/319588195616:50
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mhoyere:powersave, thanks all17:59
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mjwhttps://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next/updates/september-update21:08
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timide_Thank you for the update <321:38
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minuteinteresting https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-sdk/issues/147122:36
chpff22:56
chwe should fix pocket-reform-sysctl-fw/build.sh to use the same pico-sdk as the ci build23:00
chsame for kbd23:00
- paperManu (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~paperManu@modemcable141.205-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)23:01
+ kfx (~kfx@wopr.sciops.net)23:03
joschokay, this has been a problem for too long -- i can submit a MR doing this23:06
joschi'm thinking about either calling the build.sh scripts from .gitlab-ci.yml or to remove the build.sh scripts and put all the "magic" (it's just calling cmake..) into .gitlab-ci.yml23:07
joschminute: preferences?23:07
chmy 2c: the cmake files should set PICO_SDK_PATH themselves correctly (to match install-fw-dependencies.sh) and then the build.sh scripts can stay or not but dont change the build result23:10
joschch: are you saying the CMakeLists.txt should just hardcode the path that was set up by install-fw-dependencies.sh?23:14
chyeah why not. could just say ../../pico-sdk or whatever the path is23:14
ch(might need to be "${CMAKE_CURRENT_LIST_DIR}/../../blah"23:15
ch)23:15
joschhow about if (NOT DEFINED ENV{PICO_SDK_PATH}) set(PICO_SDK_PATH "${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/../pico-sdk")23:17
+ paperManu (~paperManu@198.16.179.107)23:17
chi would skip the if part23:20
chbut yeah23:20
joschch: i'd leave it in because users familiar with pico-sdk expect to be able to use that environment variable to set the location23:21
chyeah and i'd be the opposite23:21
ch"no you get to build with -this- sdk, and not something nobody else uses"23:21
josch*shrug* i'd say minute should decide and then i do that :)23:22
minutejosch: please don't nuke my dear build.sh :D but in general, first we need to decide which sdk version to build against, and where the source of truth is for that. thinking this way, the CI doesn't seem like the correct place, and the build.sh seems like a better place23:37
minuteand if you want to build against something else you can just not use build.sh23:38
minutesummarizing, build.sh could become the source of truth for official builds in each fw directory, and dictate which sdk version is used23:38
minuteand CI calls that.23:39
joschnice, that's what i'm doing right now23:39
ch./install-fw-dependencies.sh could be the source23:39
chhaving both the truth source and the build instructions in the same file is annoying23:39
minutech: ok, and should build.sh call this or no? 23:42
minutech: how should the build script check/know that the correct sdk version was cloned?23:43
chi think its fine to have a text in README saying "run ./install-fw-dependencies.sh once and then you can use build.sh or whatever you like"23:43
chother projects also say things like 'install these things before you can run ./configure'23:44
joschmaybe we are talking a little bit past each other. Code is better than words, so I created https://source.mnt.re/reform/pocket-reform/-/merge_requests/52 -- if you want to change something, tell me where and I change it :)23:45
josch(maybe this is buggy, CI is running now for the first time)23:45
joschit is not running23:45
joschminute: can you please enable the CI runner for https://source.mnt.re/josch/pocket-reform/23:46
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)23:50
minutejosch: runner assigned!23:54
joschthank you!23:55
joschdoes anybody still need wayfire?23:55
joschit's currently QA maintained in Debian and there is a new upstream version23:55
joschi can work on it if somebody needs it...23:55

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