| minute | josch: the MR lgtm as a step towards the goal | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| josch | thank you! lets fix the details :) | 00:14 |
| minute | josch: ah, install-fw-dependencies is called anyway by CI, i had that wrong in my memory | 00:15 |
| minute | i remembered it so that the ci script was cloning sdk 1.5.1 directly | 00:16 |
| josch | in the other repos we also moved code out of gitlab-ci.yml into shell scripts so that the scripts can be called manually -- so this MR follows the same trend | 00:17 |
| minute | josch: all good. thumbs up from me | 00:21 |
| josch | ch: do you have opinions for me? :) | 00:23 |
| ch | the message() in cmakelists.txt seems misleading | 00:26 |
| ch | -DFAMILY=rp2040 is new? | 00:26 |
| ch | iirc also unnecessary? | 00:27 |
| ch | does --build imply -j? | 00:28 |
| - AnimaInvicta (PART: !!unknown attribute: msg!!) (~AnimaInvi@88-120-179-216.subs.proxad.net) | 00:30 | |
| josch | i copied -DFAMILY=rp2040 from .gitlab-ci.yml so that it's encoded in the build.sh and not in .gitlab-ci.yml | 00:36 |
| josch | yes, message() needs to be improved | 00:36 |
| josch | i was wondering about the parallelism | 00:36 |
| josch | do we maybe want no parallelism by default for more readable build logs? | 00:36 |
| - synnfynn (QUIT: Quit: until next time..) (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 00:51 | |
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| * jeisses_ -> jeisses | 02:23 | |
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| + paperManu (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 12:45 | |
| + gustav2 (~gustav@c-78-82-55-162.bbcust.telenor.se) | 13:02 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c) | 13:04 | |
| jahkosha | is it realistic to use openbsd on the pocket reform? I see it listed in the documentation but I wonder how good it support is? | 13:26 |
| - emdevt (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~emdevt@2001:7e8:faf6:f101:70f9:10a4:805e:9fe1) | 13:27 | |
| + MartiniMoe (~moe@p200300eecf1edefeb7cd83640ed8a1b0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 13:45 | |
| chorc | jahkosha: previously some work was done to support i.MX Reform in OpenBSD, not other SoCs, there's a forum thread on it https://community.mnt.re/t/any-news-on-openbsd-update-it-works-now/646/13 | 13:58 |
| minute | jahkosha: i think display is probably unsolved except if you make an unusual pocket reform with imx8mq | 14:00 |
| minute | we really really need display support in uboot for rk3588, then those other OSes could at least use the framebuffer | 14:01 |
| minute | hmm, edk2 has rk3588 dsi support https://github.com/edk2-porting/edk2-rk3588 | 14:02 |
| minute | if someone spent a day on this it could probably work on the pocket | 14:02 |
| minute | looks doable to patch https://github.com/edk2-porting/edk2-rk3588/blob/master/edk2-rockchip/Platform/FydeInnovations/FydetabDuo/Library/RockchipPlatformLib/CsotDsiPanel.c | 14:03 |
| minute | we need more bored C coders in here :D | 14:03 |
| [tj] | jahkosha: you just need to do the work | 14:03 |
| [tj] | I have freebsd running on the imx8mp, but I don't have time to finish the port | 14:04 |
| josch | lol bored :D | 14:04 |
| [tj] | it shouldn't be too hard to get working uboot support for imx8mp and a graphical console, but I literally can't buy a compatible display with my devboards | 14:04 |
| [tj] | I lack this skillset | 14:04 |
| jahkosha | minute, [tj]: I'm bored but I'm not sure I'll have the skillset, anyway I'll give this a try when the pocket arrive! thanks for the references | 14:07 |
| [tj] | jahkosha: which som will you get? | 14:08 |
| minute | jahkosha: here are some quick instructions https://mastodon.social/@mntmn/115253521259401214 | 14:08 |
| josch | minute: while you are here: is it plausible that on a311d, the /sys path of lpc is /sys/bus/spi/drivers/reform2_lpc/spi0.0/firmware while on imx8mq and rk3588 it's spi1.0 instead of spi0.0? | 14:08 |
| [tj] | part of the issue for "otheros" is its easy for linux modules to flit between a bunch of completely different unsupported socs | 14:08 |
| minute | josch: sure thing | 14:08 |
| josch | thank you! | 14:08 |
| minute | josch: multiple spi busses/controllers depending on platform | 14:09 |
| josch | okay, but it's the SoM not the motherboard revision or something, right? | 14:09 |
| + paperManu_ (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 14:09 | |
| josch | (and i hope this does not change with kernel version or something) | 14:10 |
| jahkosha | [tj]: RK3588 | 14:10 |
| [tj] | jahkosha: it should be easier since rk3588 supports efi, you can pick up a cheap orange pi board with the s variant and do most of hte work against that before the reform arrives | 14:11 |
| jahkosha | ty minute I'll keep that link handy | 14:11 |
| chorc | minute: I've been running not just keyboard fw, but also sysctl fw from that latest build since Saturday (https://source.mnt.re/reform/pocket-reform/-/jobs/13221/artifacts/browse), and in 3 days of constant use I've yet to see a random reboot, was there something that could fix it, compared to latest release, or am I just lucky? | 14:11 |
| [tj] | maybe I should give in and get an rk3588 module | 14:11 |
| jahkosha | [tj]: that is great news, I'll grab an orange pi then, thanks a lot | 14:12 |
| [tj] | support is normally something like: get a booting image, write a clocks driver, while (missing_driver) data sheet/implement; done | 14:13 |
| jahkosha | sounds like something fun to try :) | 14:16 |
| jahkosha | and I have usecases for that orange pi once done | 14:16 |
| [tj] | writing a clock driver is a miserable experience :D | 14:18 |
| [tj] | set your expectations and you'll have fun | 14:19 |
| josch | talking about u-boot display support for rk3588: i'd be willing to pitch in 200 EUR for somebody who can/wants to do the work if that's all that's missing | 14:19 |
| josch | as in: if it's just money or resources that hold somebody with the right skills back | 14:19 |
| josch | and if the person is in europe, i can also borrow one of my devices -- every time i am using imx8mq i again get jealous that it has u-boot graphics support... | 14:20 |
| jahkosha | [tj]: sure thing, with low expectation comes high resiliency :-D | 14:21 |
| jahkosha | josch: I don't have the right skills, but maybe I'll acquire them by giving this a try ... I'll happy pay for that board if I fail I'll be happy to send to someone that have better skills then | 14:22 |
| jahkosha | I found a board for ~120 euro online | 14:22 |
| [tj] | aliexpress might be down to 60eur | 14:23 |
| jahkosha | okay I'll have a look ty [tj] | 14:24 |
| minute | chorc: that's interesting. it could be the update from 1.5.1 sdk to 2.2.0 that fixed the sysctl for you | 14:30 |
| minute | (yet unproven theory) | 14:31 |
| minute | but this is sus: https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-sdk/pull/2026 | 14:31 |
| - paperManu_ (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 14:35 | |
| chorc | interesting, yes; it's been only three days 'though, I'll make a note by the end of the week | 14:35 |
| + paperManu_ (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 14:35 | |
| bremner | Just to confirm, the "watchdog reset" reported here https://www.cs.unb.ca/~bremner/blog/posts/hibernate-pocket-12/ is from the kernel, not something reform (LPC?) specific, right? | 14:44 |
| + erle_off_ice (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 14:48 | |
| minute | bremner: correct, that's probably something inside the rk3588 soc | 14:55 |
| josch | https://source.mnt.re/reform/pocket-reform/-/merge_requests/52 is now ready to be merged from my side | 14:56 |
| minute | bremner: what's on that a40c00000.pcie port? nvme? | 14:56 |
| josch | i implemented the suggestions from ch from yesterday, except that I did not add -j$(nproc) | 14:56 |
| josch | rationale: the build is fast and linear build logs are easier to debug if something goes wrong | 14:57 |
| minute | josch: thanks, merged | 14:57 |
| josch | thank you! | 14:58 |
| erle_off_ice | i got my first reproducible hang on imx8mq: start nexuiz (this will only work with MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=4.0), then go to the video settings dialog and click “Apply immediately” repeatedly. this fills up the RAM (a nexuiz bug I guess) and at some point etnaviv will give up doing things (despite the RAM not being filled completely according | 15:02 |
| erle_off_ice | to htop). the system is still running though, music plays. | 15:02 |
| - MartiniMoe (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~moe@p200300eecf1edefeb7cd83640ed8a1b0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 15:03 | |
| erle_off_ice | unfortunately, “glxinfo -B” shows me “Video memory: 0MB”, so i have no idea what kind of limit i am hitting here. | 15:05 |
| + synnfynn (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 15:05 | |
| minute | erle_off_ice: nothing in dmesg? | 15:08 |
| erle_off_ice | i have not checked, i can see if i get something | 15:10 |
| + elb (~elb@68.133.31.194) | 15:11 | |
| minute | ordering first Quasar pcbs now ;3 | 15:12 |
| minute | josch: the name stuck | 15:12 |
| josch | \o/ | 15:12 |
| bremner | minute: any idea how I can tell? lscpci seems to use a different identifier scheme | 15:14 |
| bremner | hmm. ls /sys/something, I guess | 15:15 |
| bremner | nvme is a41000000.pcie | 15:15 |
| erle_off_ice | [ 2531.074239] Huh VM_FAULT_OOM leaked out to the #PF handler. Retrying PF | 15:16 |
| - erle_off_ice (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 15:17 | |
| + erle_off_ice (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 15:20 | |
| erle_off_ice | i saw my message got through, seconds before the screen froze | 15:20 |
| erle_off_ice | what is the most performance-friendly way to have a lower resolution for apps where fullscreen performance is tied directly to screen resolution (i.e. games)? i have been using wlr-randr(1) with --scale but idk if that is the best way. | 15:32 |
| bremner | minute: it seems to be the first PCI bridge, reported as 0003:30:00.0 by lspci | 15:33 |
| minute | bremner: and what's connected to that bridge? nothing? | 15:36 |
| bremner | minute: unsure. lspci -tv only shows the nvme controller. | 15:44 |
| bremner | (on a different bridge) | 15:44 |
| bremner | nothing interesting from "sudo lspci -s 0003:30:00.0 -M" | 15:48 |
| erle_off_ice | i think my keyboard mapping got messed up somehow – according to wev(1) the right m3 key is return, the left m3 key is control and the return key is m3. so far all other keys seem to be working fine. hilarious. impractical though. | 17:08 |
| - erle_off_ice (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 17:09 | |
| + erle_off_ice (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 17:11 | |
| erle_off_ice | whatever messed up my keyboard, it did survive a reboot :( | 17:12 |
| minute | bremner: ok, if you don't have any other pcie devices (i.e. wifi), you can try disabling that bridge before suspend | 17:16 |
| minute | erle_off_ice: sounds like you updated the keyboard firmware? | 17:17 |
| erle_off_ice | minute not consciously i guess. is that done when i use apt to upgrade the system? i do remember a question about which keyboard layout i have though on upgrade and i may have answered it wrong. | 17:19 |
| bremner | minute: will try that later today | 17:22 |
| erle_off_ice | no idea when this modifier moving around changed really. i mostly used the external keyboard. but this explains a few “typos” i keep making today, as muscle memory is a bitch. | 17:23 |
| erle_off_ice | josch you use neo2 too, right | 17:26 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: yes | 17:27 |
| erle_off_ice | is your right m3 key above or below the enter key and is your left m3 key a ctrl key or does it do m3? | 17:27 |
| erle_off_ice | like, physically my m3 key is below the enter key. but the key labeled m3 is sending enter. | 17:28 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: the neo2 layout by MNT has the right m3 key above the enter key -- i changed that | 17:28 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: the neo2 layout by MNT has ctrl where i expect the left m3 | 17:28 |
| josch | so i changed that too | 17:28 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: i got custom keycaps made by https://fkcaps.com/custom/ so i'm not using the MNT neo2 layout | 17:29 |
| erle_off_ice | so given you changed that, what do i need to do to have it match the physical keys? | 17:29 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: which keyboard version? | 17:29 |
| erle_off_ice | how do i find that out? | 17:30 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: do you have two alt keys between your spacebar? | 17:30 |
| erle_off_ice | no, an alt key and an m4 key. | 17:30 |
| josch | it doesn't matter what they are labeled | 17:31 |
| erle_off_ice | let me check using wev | 17:31 |
| erle_off_ice | left one is alt or mod1, right one is m4 or mod5 | 17:32 |
| josch | that can all be changed in the firmware | 17:32 |
| josch | either you have a look at the label or you look at how the keys are physically layed out | 17:32 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: okay, just count the keys. Do you have 12 keys in the bottom row? | 17:34 |
| erle_off_ice | well, i wonder now if i selected the wrong keymap at some point somehow or if it was always like that (given i mainly use the external keyboard). then again, my muscle memory is only failing me today. | 17:34 |
| erle_off_ice | 12 | 17:34 |
| josch | good, then you have the old layout | 17:35 |
| josch | let me try and find out what the stock neo2 layout for the old keyboard was... | 17:35 |
| - jeisses (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~jeisses@209.38.98.192) | 17:36 | |
| erle_off_ice | thank you | 17:36 |
| josch | aha found it | 17:37 |
| erle_off_ice | my /etc/vconsole.conf says XKBMODEL="pc105", is this maybe wrong? | 17:38 |
| erle_off_ice | i dont think i have 105 keys, more like 82 | 17:38 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: this is the default printed layout: https://mister-muffin.de/p/F-3p.png | 17:39 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: that is irrelevant | 17:39 |
| erle_off_ice | okay, that looks like mine yes | 17:40 |
| josch | with keyboard v4 there is a descrepancy between what is in the firmware for the neo2 layout and what is getting laser engraved | 17:40 |
| josch | there were also changes to the neo2 layout for keyboard v2 (the one you have) and they may also have introduced descrepancies | 17:40 |
| josch | i never bothered to fix them because i'm running a custom firmware anyways and there are only two users of the neo2 layout: you and me :) | 17:41 |
| erle_off_ice | oh lol | 17:41 |
| josch | and i'm about to switch to the noted layout :) | 17:41 |
| josch | and since i'm not looking at my keys while typing anyways, the layout doesn't matter much to me -- it's more something to show off with and explain to people who notice why qwerty sucks ;) | 17:42 |
| erle_off_ice | so what do you suggest i do now so the label matches the software matches my muscle memory? | 17:43 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: i say: decide what your muscle memory prefers and then switch keycaps around and modify the firmware accordingly | 17:43 |
| erle_off_ice | i prefer what is printed, as that is what the external kbd does. so no keycap switching. | 17:44 |
| josch | okay | 17:45 |
| josch | i have another keyboard v2 here but with different printed labels | 17:45 |
| josch | but i could use that to modify the firmware such that it matches the png i pasted above | 17:46 |
| josch | i can do that later tonight | 17:46 |
| erle_off_ice | have a link to the firmware for that keyboard? i guess figuring out the patch is something i can do, because i do have a keyboard where the labels match. so i just need to revert the commit that breaks it i guess. | 17:46 |
| erle_off_ice | thank you | 17:46 |
| josch | the commit which i suspect broke it does a bit more, so just reverting is probably not going to work | 17:46 |
| josch | but switching keys around in the firmware is really easy | 17:46 |
| josch | if you want to do it, here is the source you have to touch: | 17:47 |
| erle_off_ice | ah, commit hygiene … | 17:47 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: indeed but m.inute is a machine when it comes to their productivity and i rather have lower commit hygiene than make them do even more work | 17:48 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: this file is the basic layout: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/blob/master/reform2-keyboard-fw/keyboard.h?ref_type=heads | 17:49 |
| erle_off_ice | i know these things. if you know halon from minetest/luanti, same thing. i think cora sometimes rewrites history for committers with an incredible output in mineclonia. | 17:50 |
| erle_off_ice | idk how i managed to make part of this message italic | 17:51 |
| josch | it's your client | 17:51 |
| erle_off_ice | and messed up muscle memory | 17:51 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: on top of the base layout, here are the changes for neo2: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/blob/master/reform2-keyboard-fw/keyboard.c?ref_type=heads#L294 | 17:51 |
| erle_off_ice | so what is wrong with that? matrix[KBD_COLS*3+0]=HID_KEYBOARD_SC_CAPS_LOCK; // left M3 | 17:53 |
| erle_off_ice | like at which point does this become a ctrl key? | 17:53 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: if i have to think about this now then i can as well do the work ;) | 17:53 |
| erle_off_ice | fine, i will. i have the problem after all. | 17:53 |
| josch | and if i have to think about this, then i'll do that later tonight | 17:53 |
| josch | erle_off_ice: once you have something you can submit the MR and i can test it | 17:54 |
| erle_off_ice | i'll try | 17:54 |
| erle_off_ice | hmm, i have an idea | 17:55 |
| erle_off_ice | brb | 17:55 |
| - erle_off_ice (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 17:55 | |
| + erle_off_ice (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 18:02 | |
| + pastaonirc (~pastaonir@user/xha) | 18:04 | |
| erle_off_ice | so i tested some other keys and figured out using wev, that e.g. f1, f2 also do something else than their labels (adjust backlight) and are not even registered by wev(1). guess i will have some debugging to do. | 18:05 |
| - erle_off_ice (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 18:08 | |
| - thelounge5055 (QUIT: Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) (~thelounge@148.168.138.88.rev.sfr.net) | 18:11 | |
| + erle_off_ice (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 18:16 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 18:19 | |
| - erle_off_ice (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 18:28 | |
| + erle_off_ice (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 18:29 | |
| erle_off_ice | sigrid since you were involved in the display brightness control via kbd at some point, do you have any idea what the reason could be that f1 and f2 keys are not sending f1 and f2 but adjusting brightness directly? ironically, if i press hyper and f1 or f2 i get XF86MonBrightnessDown or XF86MonBrightnessUp, but no display brightness change | 18:32 |
| + wielaard (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 18:34 | |
| erle_off_ice | josch i think i solved the mystery | 18:36 |
| sigrid | erle_off_ice: idk. it works as intended on my machine *shrugs* | 18:37 |
| sigrid | my machine being a classic reform with rk3588 | 18:37 |
| erle_off_ice | josch sigrid here is the resolution: there exists a second layer toggle that i found in the source code, hyper + circle. it messes up the neo2 layout by switching the right return and m3 key and changing the left m3 key to control. it also makes the f1 and f2 keys do what i described above. and that mode switch survives reboots! | 18:38 |
| erle_off_ice | bye | 18:40 |
| sigrid | hyper+circle makes f1/f2 change the brightness directly | 18:40 |
| sigrid | so does hyper+f1/f2 in that mode | 18:41 |
| - erle_off_ice (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~erle_off_@2a02:2455:8067:ea00:8e7a:97ab:f0dc:1c05) | 18:44 | |
| + AnimaInvicta (~AnimaInvi@88-120-179-216.subs.proxad.net) | 18:46 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 18:47 | |
| minute | ah, that was sticky hyper mode. | 18:51 |
| minute | once in a while, it is discovered. | 18:51 |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 19:14 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 19:23 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 19:28 | |
| josch | indeed that explains | 19:44 |
| josch | i must admit i completely removed the hyper key from my layout XD | 19:44 |
| - synnfynn (QUIT: Quit: until next time..) (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 19:56 | |
| + erle (~erle@user/erle) | 20:19 | |
| erle | minute yeah the lack of an fn indicator anywhere is a tiny UX issue here i guess. though the underlying bug is simply that the enter keys and both M3s were simply not defined for the fn or fn-lock mappings. | 20:23 |
| erle | like, these three keys are in non-standard positions in the neo2 variant, so they revert to whatever fn and fn_toggled does for the base layout. | 20:24 |
| erle | i have already written a patch that addresses this, but i need to verify it, of course. | 20:24 |
| erle | anyway, to check if your keyboard is affected: press hyper + m3. if that generates a return key signal, it is. | 20:25 |
| erle | (the previous line was sent by pressing hyper + m3) | 20:25 |
| erle | sorry for disappearing just as i had solved it, a friend of mine was kinda unhappy with me sitting around for hours trying to debug suspend, graphics, and keyboard issues. | 20:26 |
| erle | josch without a hyper key, how have you mapped stuff like home and end? | 20:36 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 20:50 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Killed (tantalum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c) | 21:12 | |
| * wielaard -> mjw | 21:12 | |
| + Guest7653 (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c) | 21:13 | |
| josch | erle: home is where F10 used to be and end is where F11 used to be | 21:26 |
| josch | errr: home is where F11 used to be and end is where F12 used to be | 21:26 |
| erle | i see | 21:27 |
| jfred | Woo, updating to the latest pocket reform keyboard FW seems to have fixed the keyboard resets I was running into. Guess it was that memory leak after all :) | 21:42 |
| erle | anyone wants to play a bit of nexuiz? to run it on reform you have to make mesa lie using “MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=3.2 nexuiz” but the game does work fine then. | 21:58 |
| bremner | minute: if I have an nvme drive, but am not using it, should it be OK to "remove" (via echo 1 > /dev/.../remove) the corresponding pcie device / bridge? Or is that expected to die? I guess there might be something else to do one the kernel side, like remove a module? | 22:04 |
| gordon1 | if it is not mounted it should be fine to remove it, however i do not think that standard m.2 slots are designed to be hotpluggable | 22:06 |
| gordon1 | so i would advice against that | 22:08 |
| erle | does anyone else know where the slight “buzzy” feeling comes from that you get when you move a finger along the reform case? like, is it the coating of the aluminium? | 22:08 |
| erle | it feels like something vibrating (and it has always felt like that) | 22:09 |
| gordon1 | erle: it is AC coupling from the charger | 22:09 |
| gordon1 | it goes away if you remove the charger | 22:10 |
| erle | gordon1 well now that you mention it, it does indeed go away then. is it dangerous? i mean it hasn't tripped any breakers. | 22:10 |
| gordon1 | and if you measure yourself against the reform case it gives around 40 V AC in my case | 22:10 |
| gordon1 | probably not | 22:10 |
| gordon1 | but you can try another charger, possibly one that has grounding, and it potentially might help | 22:11 |
| gordon1 | but i didn't try it | 22:11 |
| gordon1 | erle: also if you press your finger hard onto exposed screw (one at the edge of the keyboard for example), "buzzing" also goes away, but that's because you and the case at the same potential now | 22:12 |
| gordon1 | i'm pretty sure it is a function of a charger, since i have same voltage between myself and a charger ground, it's just aluminium anodizing makes it noticeable because it in this sweet spot of capacitive coupling between case and human body | 22:14 |
| erle | right, so with other laptops i would never feel a thing because they are full-blown plastic toys | 22:15 |
| - gustav2 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-78-82-55-162.bbcust.telenor.se) | 22:15 | |
| erle | ? | 22:15 |
| erle | well, now i guess is the first time that i wonder if usb-c charging is a thing that can be jury-rigged ;) | 22:16 |
| gordon1 | my thinkpad sometime tickled me at places where paint coating worn down and bare magnesium alloy casting was exposed | 22:16 |
| gordon1 | that was btw much more unpleasant than reform, so thinkpad vs. reform 0:1 on that! | 22:17 |
| josch | erle: not true, i had the same with dells and thinkpads | 22:18 |
| erle | i must admit that the buzzing is kinda pleasant | 22:20 |
| erle | josch good to know. would you also say that it is dependent on the charger? | 22:21 |
| josch | erle: my employer is the faculty of electrical engineering so i know who i would ask to get a good answer but i'm not the person to ask about electricity-related stuff :D | 22:22 |
| minute | bremner: yes, remove should work | 22:27 |
| minute | erle: the buzzing is also normal for apple aluminum laptops. | 22:28 |
| minute | at least it was in 2013 when i still used one | 22:28 |
| erle | minute i used one as well for work years ago, but i can't remember if it buzzed. what i do remember is that the case looked hideous after a short while at the point where my hand usually touched it. | 22:30 |
| minute | both of these are normal and widely known | 22:30 |
| erle | well, the reform does *not* look hideous after i touch it a lot. so far. ;) | 22:31 |
| erle | for a while, every time my manager asked “can we do something to make your work more comfortable?” i said “you could give me a thinkpad again”. after some time, my prayers were answered. | 22:31 |
| jfred | That's interesting, I don't think I've ever felt that touching my Reform while charging... the US power supply has a grounded 3-prong connector though, is that different elsewhere? | 22:31 |
| josch | minute: do you also notice and maybe have an explanation for why the brown switches of my v2 keyboards sound so different from the ones in the v4 keyboards i have? i read https://community.mnt.re/t/optimizing-pocket-reform-keyboard-acoustics/3847/5 and indeed the v4 have this very audible "ping" while the browns in my v2 keyboards do not | 22:31 |
| minute | josch: hmm no idea | 22:32 |
| josch | i guess i have to lube my switches :) | 22:32 |
| erle | jfred if it's a function of the charger, that makes sense. i just wonder though why my charger could be improperly grounded, given that it has one of these fat (schuko?) plugs. | 22:32 |
| gordon1 | jfred: unfortunately mine has three pins but ground one is plastic http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/images/features/misc/gan1.jpeg | 22:33 |
| erle | oh yeah, on the topic of lube: if my trackball offers a bit of resistance, what can i do? i thought about applying lube to it, but then i thought it would probably be harder to move. | 22:33 |
| minute | erle: i think if you use it more, it becomes smoother | 22:34 |
| erle | (silicon lube, in case that matters. a friend showed me that it is a great way to make rough surfaces feel very smooth.) | 22:34 |
| erle | minute ok! | 22:34 |
| gordon1 | josch: on cherries acoustic response could be dampened by using small silicone o-rings that you add to the stem, potentially it can be done on the chocs, probably need to be either doubled for every stem or one o-ring put over both of them | 22:34 |
| gordon1 | erle: do you want disgusting option or potentially risky option? | 22:35 |
| gordon1 | (sorry, i do not have solutions that are not one or the other) | 22:36 |
| erle | gordon1 tell me both. though if you want me to immerse the reform in sunflower oil, i'll probably pass. my computer should not smell like i am about to fry stuff. | 22:38 |
| gordon1 | erle: if you unscrew the lid, pull the ball out and rub it on your forehead, it will improve both movement and tracking | 22:38 |
| erle | is this the risky option? | 22:38 |
| erle | if yes, what's the disgusting one? | 22:39 |
| gordon1 | no, that is disgusting one | 22:39 |
| gordon1 | alternatively you can re-print the cup for the trackball but instead of putting stainless balls as bearings, you can leave the holes and put PTFE balls there | 22:39 |
| erle | well, given that this is a single-user device … | 22:39 |
| gordon1 | unfortunately you cannot glue them because nothing can glue PTFE, so next time you remove the ball - those can drop right onto the sensor | 22:40 |
| erle | lmao | 22:40 |
| erle | well, you can't have it both ways i guess | 22:40 |
| gordon1 | it will likely not damage it, but still will be a bit inconvenient to pull it out | 22:40 |
| josch | erle: sunflower oil is harmless except if it gets into contact with the tft screen -- ask me how i know :) | 22:40 |
| gordon1 | but omg, the feel with ptfe balls is just marvellous | 22:41 |
| erle | i would bet on you dropping your breakfast on it and margarine leaving an imprint on the device | 22:41 |
| gordon1 | btw i like the self-cleaning nature of reform, all the cookie crumbs are colleted at the bottom instead of getting stuck inside the keyboard! | 22:42 |
| erle | LMAO | 22:42 |
| josch | and from time to time you can open the acrylic and swipe all the crumbs into hot water to make a tasty soup :) | 22:43 |
| erle | this reminds me of one time someone at work cleaned my laptop and afterwards advised me to not use the device while shaving at the beach and eating chips at the same time. | 22:43 |
| gordon1 | but yeah how many thinkpad keyboards i broke just because i wanted to clean then and remove all the keycaps | 22:43 |
| erle | newer thinkpad keyboards just break by themselves actually | 22:44 |
| erle | i have a broken P14s where several keys are so broken i need an external keyboard to input the disk encryption password, because once pressed, they repeat forever. | 22:44 |
| gordon1 | and they have this film in between layers that is sticky so it is impossible to clean anyways | 22:44 |
| erle | gordon1 for the “disgusting” solution … what is the advantage of grease vs just a tiny drop of silicone lube? i mean the latter is less disgusting, because it is inert, right? | 22:45 |
| gordon1 | erle: i noticed that any shiny lube (i tried superlube which is vaseline based i assume) just hinders tracking to the point of being unusable | 22:46 |
| gordon1 | so you sort of must use a lube that does not add any extra shine | 22:47 |
| erle | btw, if the vivante gc7000 GPU has no VRAM and the driver can't handle OOM situations … is the solution to just have a lot of swap? or is “driver locking up in OOM conditions” a genuine linux kernel bug? | 22:48 |
| gordon1 | i mean i bet there is something that you could use instead of forehead grease but i couldn't find it yet, and also forehead grease is something i always have at hand | 22:48 |
| erle | why take the ball out then? i can just hold the reform to my head and look funny while i navigate some onscreen maze ^_^ | 22:49 |
| gordon1 | ACTION tries that | 22:49 |
| gordon1 | i mean it is possible, but ball is too deep to comfortably do that | 22:49 |
| erle | josch do you have hibernate working on imx8mq btw? or same issues as suspend? (i haven't tested that so far) | 22:50 |
| josch | erle: it has been years since i tried but back then it didn't come back up | 22:52 |
| gordon1 | josch: pfft, o-ring method explained in the link you posted, sorry, need to read before i say next time | 22:54 |
| josch | maybe i need to keep using the keyboard for a while longer? | 22:55 |
| josch | the keyboard i have been using for four years now has no "ping" but the ones i didn't use much yet (the v4) has it | 22:55 |
| gordon1 | i once did change springs on mx keyboard, it wasn't fun | 22:56 |
| gordon1 | i guess tape method is even less fun | 22:57 |
| josch | it will be less fun for me as i barely have feeling in my fingers, so i'll hold off with lubing or o-ring attempts for a bit longer | 22:57 |
| gordon1 | i also do not like the idea to have a piece of plastic that can become loose inside the switch | 22:58 |
| gordon1 | on the third hand that does not stop me from tape-protecting my usb-c mag connector | 22:59 |
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