| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 00:34 | |
| + multisn8 (~multisn8@user/multisn8) | 01:22 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 01:22 | |
| + oliverD (~Thunderbi@user/oliverd) | 01:53 | |
| + robin (~robin@user/terpri) | 01:57 | |
| - oliverD (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~Thunderbi@user/oliverd) | 01:57 | |
| - plomlompom (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~plom@139.59.138.73) | 02:24 | |
| josch | ch: reform-mcu-tool requires python-libusb1 which seems to be (together with pyinstaller and pyinstaller-hooks-contrib) in a bad state right now (the latter is not even in stable and the former has tried to migrade for 150 days) — is there an alternative to python3-libusb1 for reform-mcu-tool? | 02:56 |
|---|---|---|
| - aloo_shu (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.58) | 03:05 | |
| minute | maybe the library could be vendored? | 03:44 |
| minute | josch: cool @ box64! | 03:44 |
| + paperManu_ (~paperManu@204.244.197.237) | 03:45 | |
| + plomlompom (~plom@139.59.138.73) | 03:52 | |
| - op_4 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) | 04:05 | |
| + op_4 (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) | 04:05 | |
| - paperManu_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~paperManu@204.244.197.237) | 04:10 | |
| - paperManu (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~paperManu@204.244.197.237) | 04:10 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 04:20 | |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Excess Flood) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 04:21 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 04:22 | |
| + aloo_shu (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.196) | 04:46 | |
| + tomenzgg (~tomenzgg@24.148.84.215) | 05:39 | |
| - tomenzgg (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~tomenzgg@24.148.84.215) | 06:03 | |
| ch | josch: pyinstaller is <!nocheck>, so imo it could just be removed from libusb1 | 09:49 |
| ch | josch: i think all libusb1 does with pyinstaller is provide something -to- pyinstaller | 09:49 |
| josch | ch: thank you, i just sent soren a mail about it | 09:54 |
| ch | josch: looks like pyinstaller-hooks-contrib is entangled in the R-* shitshow | 09:55 |
| ch | looked around a bit for other libs, but i think python-libusb1 is the one where i have no concerns | 09:56 |
| ch | ... upstream | 09:56 |
| - amospalla (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 4.9.2) (~jordi@user/amospalla) | 11:52 | |
| + amospalla (~jordi@user/amospalla) | 11:52 | |
| + oliverD (~Thunderbi@user/oliverd) | 12:22 | |
| - oliverD (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~Thunderbi@user/oliverd) | 12:29 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 12:49 | |
| josch | very informative blog post about broken accessiblity on wayland: https://nocoffei.com/?p=451 | 13:29 |
| josch | it confirms my observations when i wanted to automate reform-setup-wizard testing -- tools like xdotool and others are just broken these days because "you cannot read the screen content and get the XY coordinates of an arbitrary button" is a "feature" of wayland... | 13:30 |
| minute | hmm but you can read the screen content as pixels. | 13:42 |
| minute | otherwise you couldn't take screenshots right | 13:42 |
| minute | also you can inject arbitrary input using libinput/libevent, which is a level below wayland of course | 13:43 |
| minute | i wonder which exact things are really missing for talon, i need to check what that can do... i find voice control quite interesting in general but haven't looked into it yet | 13:44 |
| minute | i read that article a while ago and my first thought was, maybe a hardware solution could be interesting :D that captures hdmi (or camera) and has usb hid output, and machine learning to segment and ocr what's on screen | 13:46 |
| minute | then that could work with any kind of DE or UI | 13:46 |
| josch | minute: indeed but with X11 i could ask: find me the button which has text "XY" on it in gtk and get me the pixel position of the button. I could just walk the widget tree, get widget attributes and no need for OCR, pattern matching or neural networks to find stuff. The information exists on the same machine it is just now hidden by how wayland works. | 13:56 |
| josch | and "clicking" was just telling the button that it is now being clicked -- I don't need to make up coordinate to click, no need to go up and down the stack to generate an actual input event. And I can even click buttons which are hidden behind other windows or not even getting rendered. :) | 14:04 |
| minute | josch: i'm wondering why that is hidden by wayland, sounds more like hidden by gtk but maybe i'm not yet understanding the architecture | 14:51 |
| minute | josch: and i'm wondering how orca can do this then (probably via atk?) | 14:52 |
| minute | josch: did x11 itself have an api for finding any widget in any toolkit? | 14:52 |
| minute | josch: uhm... talon voice doesn't seem to be open source?! | 14:55 |
| josch | yes, talon is proprietary | 14:57 |
| minute | > Talon is the best option for a lot of people to use their computer without pain. I would not have quit my job and spent years full-time developing Talon under an open source model. To my knowledge I am the only person currently working full-time on this problem. | 14:57 |
| josch | oh? | 14:57 |
| minute | that's unfortunate because then it's hard to know what the software needs to work well, or to contribute fixes | 14:58 |
| josch | as i understood it, one of the main problem that wayland wanted to fix was the security issue that a program could peek at other programs | 14:58 |
| minute | yeah but that's a very old discussion and there are many ways around this nowadays i thought | 15:01 |
| minute | interesting https://numenvoice.org/ | 15:01 |
| + paperManu (~paperManu@204.244.197.237) | 15:01 | |
| josch | yes, i read about dogtail which apparently is what works with gnome | 15:02 |
| josch | and i feel the author of that blog post when they write: it's horrible to use. I also didn't get it to work back when I tried automating reform-setup-wizard | 15:03 |
| minute | aw | 15:03 |
| minute | ah the numen author made their own dotool https://sr.ht/~geb/dotool/ | 15:06 |
| minute | argh the ai mcp people have a solution of course https://github.com/sbuysse/gnome-desktop-mcp#why | 15:08 |
| minute | of course also for kde https://github.com/isac322/kwin-mcp | 15:09 |
| minute | imagine these people would spend this energy on helping real humans access their computers | 15:10 |
| josch | yes :/ | 15:15 |
| + wielaard (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 16:39 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 16:40 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@2600:1700:1264:1290:2d92:79f9:ae53:2fdb) | 17:08 | |
| strongsand | hello! | 17:08 |
| josch | hello | 17:08 |
| strongsand | im considering ordering a reform next, how easy is it to swap out the switches in the keyboard? | 17:09 |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Changing host) (~strongsan@2600:1700:1264:1290:2d92:79f9:ae53:2fdb) | 17:10 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 17:10 | |
| josch | strongsand: switches are soldered, so you'd have to de-solder them first | 17:11 |
| strongsand | is it possible to get a blank keyboard pcb and use that? | 17:12 |
| josch | the pocket reform keyboard is also sold without switches, so maybe MNT can also offer the big keyboard v4 without switches at some point so that it becomes easier to solder your own | 17:12 |
| strongsand | oh okay, ty | 17:12 |
| josch | strongsand: i do not see MNT offering a keyboard v4 pcb without switches at this time | 17:12 |
| strongsand | alright | 17:12 |
| josch | strongsand: you can ask minute whether that's something they may want to offer in the future | 17:12 |
| strongsand | tysm! | 17:12 |
| + voltaire28_ (~jlafon@28.162.2.93.rev.sfr.net) | 17:41 | |
| - amospalla (QUIT: Ping timeout: 249 seconds) (~jordi@user/amospalla) | 17:48 | |
| + amospalla (~jordi@user/amospalla) | 17:49 | |
| - xktr (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~xktr@user/xktr) | 17:53 | |
| + xktr (~xktr@user/xktr) | 17:54 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Quit: strongsand) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 18:37 | |
| josch | minute: re https://community.mnt.re/t/jack-headset-detection/4429/1 what is the current state of 3.5 mm headphone jack detection on boards of newer revisions than I have? | 18:59 |
| + kasim (~user@2601:644:8481:3750:662b:2798:54:6fcb) | 19:02 | |
| kasim | I recently got mnt pocket refrom from CrowdSupply and have been happy user untill it yesterday. It does not power up any more. From crowdsupply return policy, I read that I can request return within 30 days but it was bit over 30 days (42 days to be exact). I did created a ticket to ask for return and not sure what they going to say. But what are my options? Any pointer will be greatly appreciated. | 19:08 |
| josch | kasim: do you want to attempt ressurecting it or do you definitely want to return it? | 19:08 |
| - voltaire28_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~jlafon@28.162.2.93.rev.sfr.net) | 19:10 | |
| kasim | I'd like to return if I can. | 19:12 |
| kasim | josh: Just in case you did not see above message. I'd like to return if I can. | 19:31 |
| kasim | josch: third try :) in case you did not get above message. I'd like to return if I can. | 19:32 |
| + voltaire28_ (~jlafon@28.162.2.93.rev.sfr.net) | 19:38 | |
| ch | your message comes through | 19:44 |
| + siviq (~siviq@user/siviq) | 19:46 | |
| josch | kasim: if it's actually broken you can also hand it in for warrenty handling if crowdsupply does not take it back -- i'm not familiar with crowdsupply policies. minute will know more | 19:48 |
| - siviq (QUIT: Client Quit) (~siviq@user/siviq) | 19:51 | |
| kasim | josch: Thanks for the info. ok with warrenty handling if that turns out to be my only option. | 19:53 |
| + oli (~oli@ipservice-092-208-225-080.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de) | 20:09 | |
| - oli (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~oli@ipservice-092-208-225-080.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de) | 20:16 | |
| - kasim (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~user@2601:644:8481:3750:662b:2798:54:6fcb) | 20:34 | |
| + Mot (~mot@user/mot) | 20:46 | |
| + kasim (~user@2601:644:8481:3750:662b:2798:54:6fcb) | 20:51 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@2600:382:360e:7628:da23:ea6f:d64b:67c4) | 21:16 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Changing host) (~strongsan@2600:382:360e:7628:da23:ea6f:d64b:67c4) | 21:16 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 21:16 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 21:23 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@2601:2c3:cd01:ed1:33dd:6989:2ffb:b75a) | 21:31 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Client Quit) (~strongsan@2601:2c3:cd01:ed1:33dd:6989:2ffb:b75a) | 21:31 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 21:36 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Client Quit) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 21:36 | |
| + reform27274 (~hramrach@82.209.18.6) | 21:38 | |
| reform27274 | Hello | 21:38 |
| reform27274 | at https://mntre.com/documentation/pocket-reform-handbook/advanced.html it is suggested to use gnome-firmware (which is a wrapper around fwupdmgr) which does nnot support reform | 21:39 |
| reform27274 | Is this outdated or was the support planned but never happened? | 21:40 |
| josch | reform27274: both keyboard and sysctl can be updated via gnome-firmware -- does it not show up for you? | 21:40 |
| reform27274 | no, it only shows the disk, and then a notice that unsupported devices exist | 21:41 |
| josch | oh funny, lets ping minute :) | 21:42 |
| + exark (~exark@user/exark) | 21:43 | |
| josch | reform27274: just to confirm you *are* on the pocket reform, right? | 21:44 |
| reform27274 | yes, pocket reform | 21:44 |
| josch | fwiw this is how it looks like for me on the pocket reform: https://mister-muffin.de/p/c2hZ.png | 21:45 |
| josch | if you just received your unit, maybe it contains the new mainboard and keyboard versions and there is a fwupd issue with those? | 21:45 |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 21:47 | |
| reform27274 | https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/09735c99540c | 21:47 |
| strongsand | is the july 1/july 31 expected shipping date accurate? | 21:47 |
| josch | reform27274: the two lines "W: unable to obtain version of" are a problem | 21:48 |
| reform27274 | so it would theoretically be possible to update if the existing firmware was new enough to report version | 21:49 |
| josch | reform27274: wait, this is an older system? | 21:49 |
| reform27274 | Not exactly fresh from the oven | 21:50 |
| josch | ah okay, then forget what i said about new mainboard and keyboard versions | 21:50 |
| josch | reform27274: did you at any point change the jumper position on the mainboard? | 21:50 |
| reform27274 | I do not think so | 21:51 |
| reform27274 | Would there be any reason to change it? | 21:51 |
| - plomlompom (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~plom@139.59.138.73) | 21:52 | |
| josch | strongsand: shipping date for what? Current estimates are in this table: https://mntre.com/faq.html#shipping-returns | 21:52 |
| josch | reform27274: the jumper position should be like in this photo https://support.mnt.re/images/PREF-move-jumpers.svg (by moving them in the direction indicated with arrows you can flash your mainboard using another computer) | 21:54 |
| josch | but if they are in the location indicated by the arrows then your system cannot flash it any longer | 21:54 |
| josch | reform27274: do you have the output of: lsusb | grep 1209: | 21:55 |
| * wielaard -> mjw | 21:55 | |
| reform27274 | I did not try to flash from another computer so I would not move the jumpers | 21:56 |
| reform27274 | no output fromn the grep | 21:56 |
| josch | whoops | 21:56 |
| josch | reform27274: if your system is older, remember that to flash using fwupd you need to first manually flash a minimal firmware version | 21:57 |
| reform27274 | it's probably with the old ID | 21:57 |
| reform27274 | lsusb https://paste.opensuse.org/pastes/b2822464f939 | 21:58 |
| reform27274 | is there some guide for the case when the firmware is too old for fwupd? | 21:59 |
| josch | reform27274: my browser history says https://source.mnt.re/reform/pocket-reform/-/releases/ | 21:59 |
| josch | but i cannot check for you right now as the gitlab is unreachable by me (in the past, "AI" crawlers brought the system down frequently) | 21:59 |
| josch | reform27274: does the link work for you? | 22:00 |
| josch | ah yes it works but veeeeeery slow | 22:00 |
| josch | minute: ^ | 22:00 |
| reform27274 | that looks good, thanks | 22:01 |
| josch | if i remember correctly, 20250724 was the latest manual one | 22:02 |
| + tomenzgg (~tomenzgg@24.148.84.215) | 22:03 | |
| - tomenzgg (QUIT: Changing host) (~tomenzgg@24.148.84.215) | 22:03 | |
| + tomenzgg (~tomenzgg@user/tomenzgg) | 22:03 | |
| - reform27274 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~hramrach@82.209.18.6) | 22:05 | |
| + reform9122 (~hramrach@82.209.18.6) | 22:07 | |
| reform9122 | Now I can see the system controller in the list of devices | 22:08 |
| reform9122 | And now the keyboard as well | 22:13 |
| reform9122 | Thanks for the giuide, that would be hard to find otherwise | 22:14 |
| - reform9122 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~hramrach@82.209.18.6) | 22:16 | |
| strongsand | @josch the reform next | 22:16 |
| strongsand | crowdsupply says its expected shipping date is july 1 or july 31 depending on the model | 22:17 |
| - kasim (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~user@2601:644:8481:3750:662b:2798:54:6fcb) | 22:45 | |
| - voltaire28_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~jlafon@28.162.2.93.rev.sfr.net) | 22:58 | |
| + voltaire28_ (~jlafon@28.162.2.93.rev.sfr.net) | 23:09 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:12 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:20 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Client Quit) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:22 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:27 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:43 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:44 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:52 | |
| + strongsand (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:53 | |
| - strongsand (QUIT: Client Quit) (~strongsan@user/strongsand) | 23:53 | |
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